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	<title>Comments on: The Dream Is Real</title>
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	<description>infrequent blogging from some dude</description>
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		<title>By: CajoleJuice</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14303</link>
		<dc:creator>CajoleJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 03:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14303</guid>
		<description>Maybe I should have made this song the Song of the Week? I need to find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I should have made this song the Song of the Week? I need to find it.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14292</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14292</guid>
		<description>So im being sucked into buying songs off itunes via their ingenius recommendation system when I come across an album cover by the band &quot;Mystery&quot; which reminds me of the style of inception. So I go to the album and find a song called &quot;the Third Dream&quot;. So I preview this song, and about 30 seconds in I hear that low bass motif used throughout the entire damn movie of inception. Im talking nearly exact.

So I purchase this song, and so far as I&#039;m listening its pretty terrible...like 90&#039;s cliche prog rock. But I&#039;ll be damned if that wasnt the exact same sound from inception, titled &quot;the third dream&quot; no less. Released in &#039;07.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So im being sucked into buying songs off itunes via their ingenius recommendation system when I come across an album cover by the band &#8220;Mystery&#8221; which reminds me of the style of inception. So I go to the album and find a song called &#8220;the Third Dream&#8221;. So I preview this song, and about 30 seconds in I hear that low bass motif used throughout the entire damn movie of inception. Im talking nearly exact.</p>
<p>So I purchase this song, and so far as I&#8217;m listening its pretty terrible&#8230;like 90&#8242;s cliche prog rock. But I&#8217;ll be damned if that wasnt the exact same sound from inception, titled &#8220;the third dream&#8221; no less. Released in &#8217;07.</p>
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		<title>By: CajoleJuice</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14289</link>
		<dc:creator>CajoleJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14289</guid>
		<description>Awesome comment. I really don&#039;t feel like writing a long post in response, though, since we&#039;ll just discuss it in person this weekend again or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome comment. I really don&#8217;t feel like writing a long post in response, though, since we&#8217;ll just discuss it in person this weekend again or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14280</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14280</guid>
		<description>wrote that at 5am, if it gets confusing...this sums it it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wrote that at 5am, if it gets confusing&#8230;this sums it it up: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g</a></p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14279</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14279</guid>
		<description>The first article seems to me like its author came up with a nice allegory and ran with it, doing little to justify the whole thing as an actual dream, aside from a few points. One of the points is the window sill his wife throws herself from, but given the occasion, and the apparent look of the room, its not unlikely that this room is a luxury suite and quite large...large enough to wrap around some, creating that alley she falls into (think the kidnap scene in Taken).

The second article, while being an interview with an actor in the movie, seems to have some mistakes. He is entitled to interpret the story as he pleases, and likely has better insight into directors &quot;intent&quot; but the fact that it&#039;s Fischer&#039;s dream on the 3rd level isnt a fact at all.

He makes a mistake here. Its Fischers subconscious, it&#039;s Eames Dream. Like Cobb says to Ellen Page in the training, &quot;we create the world of the dream then bring their sub-conscious into that dream&quot;. Fischers is fooled into thinking they will be exploring Browning&#039;s sub-conscious, when really they explore his own, but the constant remaining is that its Eames world, its his dream. This is explicitly stated by Cobb to Eames when asking him to mess with the guards. He also asks Hellen Page what Eames has changed and she says &quot;the air-ducts that cut through the middle of the building&quot;...or whatever she says. 

It makes zero sense that it would be Fischer&#039;s dream, because Fischer would be far less likely to dream the EXACT same &quot;hospital in the middle of a blizzard&quot; theme  that Ellen Page is contracted to design for the 3rd level. Each level was taught to the dreamer, who then recreate it for everyone to experience and the subjects sub-conscious to fill. You see this again in the progression of the inception process. Each level is designed specifically, and this needs to be recreated specifically and so Fischer, having no knowledge of the 3rd level design, cannot be the dreamer on the 3rd level.

Also, a curious thing to note along the lines of the concern that his kids clothes never change, is the &quot;Beautiful Mind&quot; effect. That is, his kids never grow old. I dont think we are told how much time he has passed since he has been away, but one thing to note is that when he calls home, they sound much older than they appear, especially Phillipa. The fact that at the end he is able to see their faces isnt telling at all because it seems evident he can see their faces whenever he wants and chooses not to (a sort of memory totem). He doesnt let himself see his children&#039;s faces because its a &quot;one truth&quot; he is able to keep out of his dreams, reducing the urge to fall into one forever.

This is evident in the last confrontation with Mal when his children&#039;s faces are about to be revealed and he looks away. He can see them if he wants to, but refuses. In the last scene he drops his guard and allows himself to see is non-aged children&#039;s faces. On this, Dileep Rao, has something interesting to say...for whatever reason he doesnt stick around to see the totem fall or not. He seems to relinquish himself to whatever reality he currently is in.

This doesnt really solve anything for the audience, who can take it as either assurance he has made it home, or has so lost himself in limbo, that he doesnt even care to check if he is still dreaming. 

Ultimately, for the sake of story-telling there is a sort of perversion that goes on concerning the top totem. Nolan needs a totem the audience can also use, and since we cannot hold it, we have to visualize it. The physics of why tops dont topple in dream-land isnt ever explained and it makes more sense that it was a law Mal came up with for when she was in her own dreams. Does it apply for Cobb then when he is dreaming or in others dreams? Who knows, no one can, and there isnt any offering of an explanation.

Taking that for what it is  you can nearly solidify the directors intent to have the audience take place in a decision. For this reason I do not think the whole thing is a dream (however fun it is to try to prove it is), but likely Nolan wants the audience to wonder whether or not Cobb ever makes it out of Limbo with Saito or succumbs to the confusion of his mind. Any other possibly doesnt really stick for to explore them more seriously, you need more knowledge on the top totem, and its really just guesswork.

For instance if I were to explore the scenes after Cobb and Mal &quot;wake up&quot; and Mal sits at the Kitchen table running a finger over a knife with her top totem sitting next to the blade, I might suggest Cobb&#039;s inception was to show her (in limbo) that the top wasnt falling and thus they were dreaming. Wouldnt she perform this trick at the table? Wouldnt she run the top test over and over? Wouldnt she see it fall or not?  

Of course as Cobb says,  &quot;in her dreams the top never stopped spinning.&quot; Interesting that at the kitchen table she tells Cobb &quot;YOU&#039;re dreaming&quot;. 

Cobb&#039;s &quot;inception&quot; on Mal is the act of spinning the top, letting the gravity of its spinning sink in. But if Mal believes they are in Cobb&#039;s dream, who knows how the top is supposed to act. While being a brilliant way to incorporate the audience into dream discernment, the top totem seems to case many problems. I dont think you can really go too deep into it aside from seeing it as a yes or no type deal, meant only to incite that awesome feeling you feel at the end of the flick....and oh how awesome it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first article seems to me like its author came up with a nice allegory and ran with it, doing little to justify the whole thing as an actual dream, aside from a few points. One of the points is the window sill his wife throws herself from, but given the occasion, and the apparent look of the room, its not unlikely that this room is a luxury suite and quite large&#8230;large enough to wrap around some, creating that alley she falls into (think the kidnap scene in Taken).</p>
<p>The second article, while being an interview with an actor in the movie, seems to have some mistakes. He is entitled to interpret the story as he pleases, and likely has better insight into directors &#8220;intent&#8221; but the fact that it&#8217;s Fischer&#8217;s dream on the 3rd level isnt a fact at all.</p>
<p>He makes a mistake here. Its Fischers subconscious, it&#8217;s Eames Dream. Like Cobb says to Ellen Page in the training, &#8220;we create the world of the dream then bring their sub-conscious into that dream&#8221;. Fischers is fooled into thinking they will be exploring Browning&#8217;s sub-conscious, when really they explore his own, but the constant remaining is that its Eames world, its his dream. This is explicitly stated by Cobb to Eames when asking him to mess with the guards. He also asks Hellen Page what Eames has changed and she says &#8220;the air-ducts that cut through the middle of the building&#8221;&#8230;or whatever she says. </p>
<p>It makes zero sense that it would be Fischer&#8217;s dream, because Fischer would be far less likely to dream the EXACT same &#8220;hospital in the middle of a blizzard&#8221; theme  that Ellen Page is contracted to design for the 3rd level. Each level was taught to the dreamer, who then recreate it for everyone to experience and the subjects sub-conscious to fill. You see this again in the progression of the inception process. Each level is designed specifically, and this needs to be recreated specifically and so Fischer, having no knowledge of the 3rd level design, cannot be the dreamer on the 3rd level.</p>
<p>Also, a curious thing to note along the lines of the concern that his kids clothes never change, is the &#8220;Beautiful Mind&#8221; effect. That is, his kids never grow old. I dont think we are told how much time he has passed since he has been away, but one thing to note is that when he calls home, they sound much older than they appear, especially Phillipa. The fact that at the end he is able to see their faces isnt telling at all because it seems evident he can see their faces whenever he wants and chooses not to (a sort of memory totem). He doesnt let himself see his children&#8217;s faces because its a &#8220;one truth&#8221; he is able to keep out of his dreams, reducing the urge to fall into one forever.</p>
<p>This is evident in the last confrontation with Mal when his children&#8217;s faces are about to be revealed and he looks away. He can see them if he wants to, but refuses. In the last scene he drops his guard and allows himself to see is non-aged children&#8217;s faces. On this, Dileep Rao, has something interesting to say&#8230;for whatever reason he doesnt stick around to see the totem fall or not. He seems to relinquish himself to whatever reality he currently is in.</p>
<p>This doesnt really solve anything for the audience, who can take it as either assurance he has made it home, or has so lost himself in limbo, that he doesnt even care to check if he is still dreaming. </p>
<p>Ultimately, for the sake of story-telling there is a sort of perversion that goes on concerning the top totem. Nolan needs a totem the audience can also use, and since we cannot hold it, we have to visualize it. The physics of why tops dont topple in dream-land isnt ever explained and it makes more sense that it was a law Mal came up with for when she was in her own dreams. Does it apply for Cobb then when he is dreaming or in others dreams? Who knows, no one can, and there isnt any offering of an explanation.</p>
<p>Taking that for what it is  you can nearly solidify the directors intent to have the audience take place in a decision. For this reason I do not think the whole thing is a dream (however fun it is to try to prove it is), but likely Nolan wants the audience to wonder whether or not Cobb ever makes it out of Limbo with Saito or succumbs to the confusion of his mind. Any other possibly doesnt really stick for to explore them more seriously, you need more knowledge on the top totem, and its really just guesswork.</p>
<p>For instance if I were to explore the scenes after Cobb and Mal &#8220;wake up&#8221; and Mal sits at the Kitchen table running a finger over a knife with her top totem sitting next to the blade, I might suggest Cobb&#8217;s inception was to show her (in limbo) that the top wasnt falling and thus they were dreaming. Wouldnt she perform this trick at the table? Wouldnt she run the top test over and over? Wouldnt she see it fall or not?  </p>
<p>Of course as Cobb says,  &#8220;in her dreams the top never stopped spinning.&#8221; Interesting that at the kitchen table she tells Cobb &#8220;YOU&#8217;re dreaming&#8221;. </p>
<p>Cobb&#8217;s &#8220;inception&#8221; on Mal is the act of spinning the top, letting the gravity of its spinning sink in. But if Mal believes they are in Cobb&#8217;s dream, who knows how the top is supposed to act. While being a brilliant way to incorporate the audience into dream discernment, the top totem seems to case many problems. I dont think you can really go too deep into it aside from seeing it as a yes or no type deal, meant only to incite that awesome feeling you feel at the end of the flick&#8230;.and oh how awesome it is.</p>
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		<title>By: CajoleJuice</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14271</link>
		<dc:creator>CajoleJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 00:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14271</guid>
		<description>Ah, that was meant more for Justin than you. But yeah sure, it&#039;s quite a lot of bullshit, but I&#039;m not quite sure how arguing it&#039;s all a dream and metaphor for directing isn&#039;t an attempt at forming &quot;some&quot; sort of framework.

I guess you could say in the end it doesn&#039;t matter, since Cobb&#039;s catharsis is the same in the end either way. Also, here&#039;s something else:

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers.html

(I think I&#039;m just going to make a post collecting all articles like this.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, that was meant more for Justin than you. But yeah sure, it&#8217;s quite a lot of bullshit, but I&#8217;m not quite sure how arguing it&#8217;s all a dream and metaphor for directing isn&#8217;t an attempt at forming &#8220;some&#8221; sort of framework.</p>
<p>I guess you could say in the end it doesn&#8217;t matter, since Cobb&#8217;s catharsis is the same in the end either way. Also, here&#8217;s something else:</p>
<p><a href="http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers.html" rel="nofollow">http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers.html</a></p>
<p>(I think I&#8217;m just going to make a post collecting all articles like this.)</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14270</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 00:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14270</guid>
		<description>I hate shit like that. It&#039;s a pointless exercise. That guy acknowledges the counter argument in his first paragraph, but that&#039;s where this line of thought begins and ends for me.

 Rather than build up an argument that the whole movie was a dream... I could just say that Inception was a movie. It was filmed by Christopher Nolan and produced in part by his wife. Declaring that it was all a dream, in my mind, is the same as acknowledging that this was a work of fiction. For a movie (or a book, for that matter) to be worth anything you need to accept SOME framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate shit like that. It&#8217;s a pointless exercise. That guy acknowledges the counter argument in his first paragraph, but that&#8217;s where this line of thought begins and ends for me.</p>
<p> Rather than build up an argument that the whole movie was a dream&#8230; I could just say that Inception was a movie. It was filmed by Christopher Nolan and produced in part by his wife. Declaring that it was all a dream, in my mind, is the same as acknowledging that this was a work of fiction. For a movie (or a book, for that matter) to be worth anything you need to accept SOME framework.</p>
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		<title>By: CajoleJuice</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14258</link>
		<dc:creator>CajoleJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14258</guid>
		<description>Also, you will love this:

http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

FFFFUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, you will love this:</p>
<p><a href="http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html" rel="nofollow">http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html</a></p>
<p>FFFFUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKK</p>
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		<title>By: CajoleJuice</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14257</link>
		<dc:creator>CajoleJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14257</guid>
		<description>I know the episode you&#039;re talking about with the Mad Hatter. Batman wakes himself up by jumping off the clock tower. Yeah, that definitely sounds too much like Inception haha.

Interesting connection you&#039;ve made there, though. Two years until Batman Rebooted 3, exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the episode you&#8217;re talking about with the Mad Hatter. Batman wakes himself up by jumping off the clock tower. Yeah, that definitely sounds too much like Inception haha.</p>
<p>Interesting connection you&#8217;ve made there, though. Two years until Batman Rebooted 3, exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-dream-is-real/comment-page-1/#comment-14248</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 04:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/blog/?p=2897#comment-14248</guid>
		<description>He went from Batman Begins to the Prestige - a movie about deception and trickery atop moral commentary.Cue the Dark Knight and the Joker character. 

Now he comes out with inception, a wildly intricate heist film bent around concepts of mazes, puzzles, illusions and perceived reality. Cue...the Riddler?

Just their names (Joker &lt; Riddler) suggest a hierarchical climb in &quot;bad-guy&quot;. With Nolan stating he would not recast the Joker character, he could play a bit starting The Riddler out to be a Joker copy-cat (back heist, etc.) before spinning the character and Batman into something quite awesome.

Also, The Mad Hatter seems plausible. There was an old cartoon episode based around the Mad Hatter where at the end you find out the entire episode was Batman&#039;s dream, induced by The Mad Hatter... It was by far one of the best episodes, but perhaps that would be too close a concept to Inception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He went from Batman Begins to the Prestige &#8211; a movie about deception and trickery atop moral commentary.Cue the Dark Knight and the Joker character. </p>
<p>Now he comes out with inception, a wildly intricate heist film bent around concepts of mazes, puzzles, illusions and perceived reality. Cue&#8230;the Riddler?</p>
<p>Just their names (Joker &lt; Riddler) suggest a hierarchical climb in &quot;bad-guy&quot;. With Nolan stating he would not recast the Joker character, he could play a bit starting The Riddler out to be a Joker copy-cat (back heist, etc.) before spinning the character and Batman into something quite awesome.</p>
<p>Also, The Mad Hatter seems plausible. There was an old cartoon episode based around the Mad Hatter where at the end you find out the entire episode was Batman&#039;s dream, induced by The Mad Hatter&#8230; It was by far one of the best episodes, but perhaps that would be too close a concept to Inception.</p>
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